采访|斯图尔特·米德尔顿
[Mr. Qiao]
This is your first time having an exhibition in China, how do you feel?
这是你第一次在中国做展览,你的感觉是什么样的呢?
[Stuart Middleton] [Vanessa Carlos] [Vanessa Carlos] [Vanessa Carlos] [Vanessa Carlos] [Mr. Qiao]
We were just talking before about when I first made the film, I decided to make it in a very large format and make the puppy itself like the size of a normal dog. It is disappointed that when we were making the ICA show, the screen itself would be about half the size of the photographs that we used to make animation. So to have the opportunity to show it in this format in Qiao’s space is a really amazing opportunity because I never saw the world would be able to be shown like such perfect
我们之前有討論到,我第一次做这个影像展览的时候,我想要做一个大的版本,让这只狗能够和现实的狗有一样的大小。 不过很遗憾的是,当时ICA投影和空间我只能展出一半的大小,所以這次很开心,在乔空间我可以按实际的大小展示出来。我还没看到过作品能被如此完美地呈现出来。
Also, there is no language in the videos. It is one of those things that is like testing the universe. The image of the dog and the noise that the dog made is the same in China and in England. That is built in the work in a way. It is really nice for me that there is like a strength in that. Because a lot of those works, specifically the snail and the dog, are about trying to imagine what is it to be without language and how you can perform this thinking or communicating.
整部影片是没有语言的,所以同時也測試了作品的普世性。狗的形象及發出的聲音,不管在中國或是英國都是一樣的。對我來說這就像有一股力量在作品之中。因為這系列的作品,特別是鍋牛和狗,是去想像在一個沒有語言的世界,如何去表達一種思維或者是一种交流。
I always think of the dog video is like, existential, is like the movie, “Waiting for Godot,” but a dog version.
我觉得这个狗的很像一部电影『等待戈多』, 只不过是狗的版本。
It looks like he is exiting in a vacuum. It’s like all the emotions of existing and all the emotions of…suffering? (said by Stuart Middleton )狗存在一個真空的狀態裡,所有的情緒也在真空的狀態裡。它就像是各种存在的情绪集合,各种痛苦情绪的集合。
[Stuart Middleton]
There is a lot of idioms in the English language about suffering, like for dogs specifically.
英文有很多關於受難的諺語,很多跟狗有關。
[Vanessa Carlos]
When I moved to England, I didn’t know that “suffer” does not just mean suffering but also has a deeper meaning, a deeper political meaning.
在我搬去英国前,我不知道「受難」這個詞除了本身受難的意思,其實還有一層更深層的意味。
[Stuart Middleton]
Suffering was like a ‘vote’
[受难] 也可以理解为‘投票’ (一种政治行为)
[Stuart Middleton]
It’s also like a way of looking it as extensionalism but a bit humorous because the idea of a dog is like the existential crisis but without language.
也可以用一種存在主義的概念去看待它。 狗所表達的概念像是一种存在主义的危机,但是是沒有語言的表達型式。
How would you talk about the making of them? Your handmade thing and the sounds you made with it?
你會如何描述你的製作過程?特別是你的手工以及声音的制作。
[Stuart Middleton]
The sounds are all made with my mouth. It is digitally affected but there is no sound effect over it. So it is kind of like a self-portrait in a way. They are all made out of things that are very common but it is processed with CGI. The process itself is kind of retrogressive also. The dog is made of fur coat and with aluminum foil. The technology of it is very low.
所有的声音是我自己用嘴发出声做的。声音有被电子设备编辑过,但没有任何电子设备生成的声音。所以你也可以说这有点像是我的自画像。所有的素材都是很普遍(常见的 这个词可能更贴切一些)的材料,过程有利用到CGI。整个製作过程也是有点倒退式的。狗是用毛大衣以及铝箔纸製作,整个製作是非常低科技的。
Why is that important to you, is it like your autonomy of being able to make something like that, which is technically super skilled but also like unskilled?
为什么这对你来说很重要?是否表達了一種自主權?讓你去做這些可以說是充滿技巧卻同時又可以說是沒有技巧的作品?
I always think there is a kind of social implication, like making something that just was there.
我一直认为製作本身就存在的事物,是拥有某种社会含义的。
[Stuart Middleton]
Again, it goes back to how it is being shown here, it is like to take something that is very accessible, and then put it through this processive transformation where it comes to a quite monumental thing, in a really straight forward wayLike a kind of sticky, like a kind of ten-mile mound. It is a really simple trick, something anyone can decode.
再一次,這回到我是如何去展示这些东西。用一些很平常的材料,經過轉化變成一項有纪念意义的作品。技术上是很直接、單純的,任何人都可以破解。
[Mr. Qiao]
So you normally create with images and videos right?
你一般都是用影像創作是吗?
[Stuart Middleton]
Yeah, the videos are made of stop- frame photographs basically. So the snail is like 48-thousand photographs.
一般都是单帧的影像,所以像这个蜗牛的视频有4万8千张照片
Because the snail moves so slowly, it is also a reason of trying to make the snail because it can be one of the most difficult things. You can’t move too fast, that is also like one of the value (laugh).
因為蜗牛移动的太慢了,所以你不小心稍微动的快一点都不行。我想這應該也是這作品其中的一個價值。
The slime of the snail is actually Vaseline. It is melted with a hairdryer. It looks like it is liquid but it is actually solid, like a gel.
蜗牛的粘液其实是凡士林,是用吹風機溶解的,看起來是液體但其實是固體胶状的。
It is supposed to be like a parent and child.
他本身應該要像是一個鍋牛爸爸或媽媽跟孩子
But it is also from making the video of the dog, I was thinking a lot about how an animal in fictional, in culture, can be used as something to project human emotion, to support different kinds of ideas. Snails don’t have gender, they have both genders. There is no relationship between the parent and child. They can hatch, both lay eggs of their children. I thought they could be one of the furthest creatures away from our understanding of relation or family. Also, they have this kind of cuteness you could amplify to make this kind of toxic relation between these two figures. 也正是通过制作狗的视频,我思考了很多關於如何用动物,来表达人类的情感,来支持不同的想法。蜗牛没有性别,它们有两种性别。父母和孩子之间没有关系。它们都能下蛋生孩子。我认为它们可能是离我们对关系的理解最远的生物之一。 此外,他们又有这种可以被放大的可爱感,讓你可以表達這種像毒性一樣的关系。
All the films have been shown in museums in Europe before.
The dog was in ICA. The snail was in Graz. The boy was in kunsthaus Glarus.
Stuart tends to work project based. And I think it is a really nice opportunity to bring them all togetherThe set of practices and the story of animations.
所有的影像都在欧洲的美术馆展出过。狗的影片曾在ICA(Institute of Contemporary Art)展出。蜗牛的影像曾在Graz(a city in Austria)的画廊展出。男孩的影响则在瑞士的Kunsthaus Glarus展出。
Stuart通常都是做项目为主。我认为这次能把这些作品中的故事和作者相关的实践都一起展现是一个非常好的机会。
[Stuart Middleton]
Mostly like the snails and the dog- this kind of integrated installation,the sound of the snail is installed throughout the installation. It is like a kind of spiral. When you are walking through it you have kind of like this monstrous sound, the sound is like a kettle box, but then when went into the final room, there is this video of the snails moving around. The downstairs of the ICA was like completely empty and the upstairs, there was this ???, integrating into this narrative installation in some sense.
就像蜗牛和狗这样的装置,声音是环绕的建立在整个作品配置中,蜗牛的声音就如螺旋一般。在ICA时,在进场看到作品之前,你会听到像怪物一样吱吱作响的声音,进去后就会看到锅牛移动的视频。作品与整个场地是连结的。
How come for this exhibition you chose to have two speakers instead of having surround sound? 这次为什麽没用环绕,而是前面放两个音响?
[Stuart Middleton]
For the dog it was always just.., and for the snails it would be on headphones I think. It is just a kind of constraint of showing them all together. It is like a way of thinking about how to re-imagine them also.
锅牛的视频会让观众用耳机听。 共同展示他们(的音效)会成为一种约束。(将他们的声音各自呈现)就像是一种重新建构他们的方式。
The dog it just stare. There is the tail which just left to right. Really direct relationship I quite keep it
整個會被狗給主導
[Mr. Qiao]
Do we need to have text and explanation for the works?
关于展览的部分,我们应该要做标籤、对作品做解释吗?
I don’t mind actually. I think it’s quite nice if there is not too much explanation. I am happy for them to experience the works as just they are in this context.
老实说,我不太在意。我觉得如果没有太多的解释也是一件好事。我希望观众可以直接的体验与感受作品本身。
[Vanessa Carlos]
I always think that they communicate through a mood more than something literal. I always think he thinks like a writer somehow, so for me, the most poetry, like the way the images come together. So I also think it’s nice to have it really open.
我一直都觉得它们是用情绪在沟通,而不是文字。我一直觉得Stuart的思维很像个作家,特别是他的作品集合在一起的方式。所以我也认为不要太多的解释、用一种开放式的状态去呈现会很好。
But there are some texts. We can provide them if you need.
但是我们是有些文字说明的,如果有需要我们可以提供。
[Mr. Qiao]
If we got people asking questions, we want to be able to answer.
因为如果观展的人有疑问,我们希望我们能回答。
[Mr. Qiao]
Can you tell us a little about your experience? Like where did you study and how did you start creating art? 可以稍微跟我们讲一些你的经历吗?例如你在哪裡读书的?以及你是如何开始从事艺术?
[Stuart Middleton]
I studied in London and I studied in German. My parents aren’t interested in art or anything like that. I am from a small village, which got about only 10 or 12 houses in it. I’ve just always been interested in art, representational art, and then just through art school and reading I guess, that’s just my vibe.
我在英国及德国读过书。我的父母亲对艺术不是特别感兴趣。我生长在一个很小的英国城镇,大概只有10-12个房屋。我一直对艺术都很感兴趣,象徵性的艺术。然后也许还有在艺术学院的学习及自己阅读书籍的影响。我想,这就是我的风格。But overtime it becomes about how to use that or think about representation as a kind of scale that you can apply. You can choose how clearly you represent something basically. The dog was like a very clear representation. The installation tries to directly represent an atmosphere, but in a way that is very ambiguous, much less clear.
但随着时间,象徵性就会变成你如何使用它或者如何把它看作是一种你可以应用的尺度。你可以选择如何清晰地表达一些东西。狗就像一个非常清晰的代表。这个装置试图直接表示一种氛围,但以一种模煳、不那么清晰的方式。
[Mr. Qiao]
But it is very well presented, visually.
但是他的视觉呈现很好。
The stop-frame photos can be works as well.
也可以有些照片出来,其实也可以当作作品。
[Stuart Middleton]
And the puppets as well. We have like a complicated relationship with the puppets, because the puppets themselves have like a character to them since they have been used to make these videos. But at the same time, their value as an object is very different, like a sculpture in some sense. So it’s quite hard to resolve that. It is like they exist there, but it is almost inconvenient to me, in terms of how I think about the work, the work is the video, but also the puppets are very beautiful to me. I am very attached to them. They sentimentally exist as well, like a family member.
还有那些布偶也是。我们和这些布偶有个很很复杂的关係,因为木偶本身就像一个角色,因为他们被用来制作这些视频。但与此同时,它们作为一件物品的价值是非常不同的,某种意义上就像一件凋塑,所以很难解决这个问题。就像它们存在于那里一样。但对我来说几乎是不方便的,对作品的而言,视频是作品,但布偶对我来说也是非常漂亮的。我与他们有一种情感上的连结,有点像家人一样。
[Vanessa Carlos]
Remember about having the puppets by their own, but then Stuarts made these other sculptures that were like from the same something. It’s weird.
我们曾讨论过让布偶自己呈现,但是后来Stuarts用同样的东西做了其他的凋塑。很奇怪我们从来没有机会单独呈现这些布偶。
Only the sculptures that are not used in the animation be going to the world of sculptures. But the ones that are used in the films, they are like….
没有用来拍视频的凋塑作品被当做作品呈现了 有用来拍视频的这些玩偶作品 反而…
[Stuart Middleton]
But it is a nice way to work. It frees you up from the iconography of a single individual work, a sculpture in space, meaning it puts the focus much more on the process of creating things, which is great for me. But when it comes to present, it could be kind of difficult.
但这是一种很好的工作方式。它把你从图像性、单个作品的中解放出来,一个空间中的凋塑,意味着它把更多的注意力放在创造事物的过程上,这对我来说很好,但对要呈现的人来说,可能有点困难。
[Mr. Qiao]
Where is your studio? Is it in London?
你的工作室在哪里呢?伦敦吗?
[Stuart Middleton]
It is in Glasgow.
在格拉斯哥。
[Vanessa Carlos]
It is an old prison.
在一个老旧的监狱裡。
[Mr. Qiao]
I have been there.
我去過。
[Stuart Middleton]
It’s in an old prison from the 18s.
是18年代的老旧监狱。
[Mr. Qiao]
Does music play an important role in your works?
音乐在他的作品中很重要?
Not really no. In Glasco, the art scene is definitely secondary to the music scene. The most interesting creative voices are music in Glasco for sure.
倒不是。在格莱斯科,艺术的场景绝对次要于音乐。我认为最有趣、最有创意的声音来自格拉斯科的音乐。
I think sound is increasingly like make… when thinking about the installations, even the ones not included in the videos. Like you were saying at Adrian’s space, the echoes, the nature light of that also kind of intrines it into the atmosphere of that work but in a seamlessly way. Thinking about what kind of materials to use in these installation is like thinking about how the space is going to feel which also includes how it is going to sound like. I guess it is really important. And also like with the animation integrating that into the space, into that sound, into this kind of sculptural entity. It is not music though, it’s the sound.
我认为声音越来越…当想到装置的时候,甚至是那些没有包含在视频中的,就像我们在阿德里安的空间里说的,回声、自然的光也都是融入到作品的氛围中的,以一种天衣无缝的方式。考虑在这些装置中使用什么样的材料就像考虑空间会呈现什麽样的感觉一样,也包括它听起来是什么样的。我想这真的很重要。就像把动画融入到那个空间中,融入到那个声音,融入到凋塑的实体中。但并不是音乐,而是声音。